(no subject)

[phineasjones]

i've been thinking these random, half-formed thoughts about bandom women in fic and i want to share them. this is not an essay or a rant or anything nearly that organized. it just sort of hit me what my issue is after i'd been mulling for a while.



i don't read very much m/f or f/f fic so i already know as i write this that i don't have a very strong leg to stand on. and i don't want to give any examples because my point isn't to pick on anyone. i've just noticed that as a whole, the female characters in bandom fics seem to be somewhat unrealistically cool.

i think we treat them differently than the boys and i think it's less interesting. ok, i can believe a superhero-like awesomeness in lyn-z. there's something about her, man, imo she might just be that cool. but alicia, jamia, vicky-t, greta, even ashlee... they all seem pretty normal-cool to me. awesome in a way similar to how the band boys are awesome. but in fic, they don't seem to be treated that way. they are so often perfectly understanding or tough as nails or supremely confidant. which to me is... really kind of boring.

i mean, what gets me into a character is usually her or his weaknesses, those insecurities that create the drama and conflict of a story. and bandom is amazingly good at creating and portraying those characters - for the boys. and even for the boys-as-girls. i don't feel like genderswap fic has this problem.

maybe it's just because the women in this fandom, much as we love them, are not the main event (i'm sure they are for some people, but honestly, not most of us). so we just don't know as much about them. they haven't explained their foibles to us in a slew of incredibly personal interviews. so then maybe we end up using them not so much as characters as... plot devices? foils? if they ever are presented negatively in fic, it seems that it's only when they call the boys on some shit, so the boys don't want them around for that reason. which means they're still perfect, just annoyingly so.

(i suppose there is another female presence in fic - there seem to be a lot of stories where the panic boys are cheated on and/or dumped "off-screen" by their gfs. but those aren't actual characters, they're plot devices pure and simple.)

or is there some other reason? is it, like, some kind of feminist guilt over spending so much love on these boys? we can't dare to let the women be interestingly flawed? or does the feminist guilt make us include them - even when we know we're only really going to spend time for character development on the boys?

i really don't know. i'm just thinking about it. anyone else have thoughts to share? maybe some recs of fic with interesting bandom women?

Comments

[wax-jism.livejournal.com]

I think it's some kind of combo of fear of getting accusations of bashing-the-WAG if you mention a single possible flaw, and the feminist guilt. People really don't seem to have a lot of a sense of humour about the women. Hm. Except Alicia and her cat dressage, maybe.

I totally skip fic that features too much of the superwoman caricatures.

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

People really don't seem to have a lot of a sense of humour about the women.

so true. and so unfortunate. i want to want to read more of the women. but i'm so bored by most of what's out there with them.

[octette]

i think that the "perfect" or "superhero" qualities of the girls in bandom fic is just another plot device.

it's also something that happens/is used in some fic about the boys -- i'm thinking specifically of every single fic ever about jon walker i have ever read.

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

ok, good point about jwalk. but i do still feel like it's different. like, jwalk is so often perfect because everyone thinks he's the perfect boyfriend. which is also pretty boring, imo. whereas the women are perfect because no one knows what to do with them - or cares much.

[octette]

the fic i've read with the women in the forefront has mostly been written by people who believe that the women really would be awesome friends/lovers/girlfriends/fiancees/what have you, and just want to write fic to demonstrate that. which i can get behind.

of course, as soon as one of the women is slandered in a fic, i click away, so i haven't read any of the ones where the women suck -- and in the same vein, i don't think i've really read any of the 'superhero' type fics.

what i hate is when anyone -- female, male, trans, whatever -- says, "don't you know that you're in love with X?" to me that's just bad writing, ugh. just call me ranty mcrantpants!

[inkjunket.livejournal.com]

It's funny - I think I'm still so relieved that the women aren't demonized in bandom the way that they can be in so many other fandoms (I'm thinking of HP fanon in particular, also Angel canon, etc.) that I haven't really wanted to think too hard about it. When there's a girl(friend) in the way, like Hermione/Cho/Pansy, it used to be that the solution was to make her the bad guy so her man is freed to go fuck Draco or whatever. That drives me crazy. I can't think of a fandom where I've really liked the way that the women were portrayed. Maybe Due South?

I've still been enjoying the superwomen of bandom as the dea ex machina, or random plot mover... I think it's harder to make a realistic character of any gender when they're already on the sidelines; supporting characters tend to be like window dressing, even in a long fic - they're there to help the two (or three or gsf or whatever) leading men get into bed/up against the wall of the venue bathroom, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some fabulously flawed women of bandom too. But I think the combination of the Mary Sue factor and the fear of being condemned if your fic is seen as girlfriend-hating packs a powerful punch.

Also, I seriously have a major Lyn-Z + AWESOME = OTP tinhat. I don't think I could handle learning anything that diminishes her level 11 of awesome. It would break me.

[phineasjones.livejournal.com]

yeah, women in hp had it bad, it's true. especially poor cho. and due south... the women are better in fic, definitely, but the canon gives them pretty pathetic roles to start with - all very fraser-focused (yes, paul gross, everyone worships you).

I've still been enjoying the superwomen of bandom as the dea ex machina, or random plot mover.

it's not that i don't enjoy that on occasion too. just not every time, please. and please not as the sole function of women in fic. we say we love them but... honestly, i don't love perfect people. i love complicated, weird, flawed and interesting people.

I think it's harder to make a realistic character of any gender when they're already on the sidelines;

yeah, i generally agree. but i think so many of our writers are awesome and can do it when they care to. i mean, how many times does a brief characterization of ryan in, say, a jon/spencer fic just makes you giddy? quite a few, for me. and it's not usually because i'm thinking "wow, he's so awesome," it's usually more, "what a freaky weirdo, i love him!"

mostly, i just want to want to read more of the women. but i'm thinking part of the reason i don't is because when they're there, they're not very interesting to me. which is maybe just me making excuses for not reading more fic with the ladies, but there it is.

i'd say a good example of a well-written woman in fic would be maybe jamia in sky-high city. she's good, but realistically so. she can't fix frank or cure his depression. she doesn't have all the answers. she makes the right decision, i'd say, but in a realistically painful way. she doesn't see all and know all and, like, tell frank he's in love with gerard or something. she's a good person but not superhuman. to me, that's good writing.