phineasjones: (soul (madmadharri))
[personal profile] phineasjones
it would be too absolutely, horrifically ridiculous for me to have just stubbed my toe again. so let's just say i didn't. yes, we'll say that.

my dad suggested snow shoes. that seems like a pretty good idea to me at this point.

but i'm not here for a pity party. i want to talk HBP. well, really, i want you to talk HBP. i haven't read anyone's thoughts yet and now i'm dying to. i'll go a-trolling for them, but if you were inclined to link me to anything you've typed up, or anything you've read and found particularly eloquent or interesting, i'd be eternally grateful.

i'm still a little dumbfounded myself, but i'll try to scrape up some initial reactions...

FUCK YOU, JKR!!!!

i don't know exactly why, but this book has left me feeling intensely angry. OotP felt awfully, inevitably painful and infuriating but this one feels like a sudden slap in the face. it stings and it makes me fume.

possible reasons for the anger... snape being evil. i feel so manipulated. so abused. and i don't know what the fandom's thoughts on this are yet... on the extent of his eviltude, but... i feel like my heart's been ripped out and tossed around for sport. i was ready to give snape so much benefit of the doubt. damnit.

and dumbledore's death, of course. not so much because i adore him or whatever. i actually thought he was kind of jerky in a lot of this book. more because she set him up as harry's closest adult and then killed him off, aggravatingly like sirius. and he died begging. i don't know how exactly i feel about that, but not good.

and, possibly this is predictable, but the most upsetting thing by far to me is the remus/tonks. i wouldn't deny him happiness. i wouldn't want him to just mourn and waste away forever. i don't think tonks is a bad choice for him. i just hate the way it shook down. i hate that lupin was almost absent from the book and then gets tossed in for such a pointless romantic moment there at the end. pointless? yes. what was the point? we were a little curious about what was going on with tonks, sure, but... there was no reason to be think about lupin that way. that was just thrown in there. i feel like it was a slap in the face to all of us so pleased that s/r was so close to being canon. like she couldn't let even the possibility of homos in the story linger out there. and not like i think that dating tonks makes him insta-straight, but it feels like jkr might think so.

it just... coming to that part after snape killing dumbledore and bill being maimed and... i thought i might need the plane's sick bag.

i didn't mind harry/ginny all that much. at least she has a personality, a likable one at that. but the peter parker moment at the end was a bit much.

the one truly redeeming feature of the book for me, right now, is the harry/draco epic-ness of it. there were SO many times as i read that i though, huh, i think i've read this one before. and she even left it open for future h/d goodness. not that it wouldn't have been open... but i'm with [livejournal.com profile] camillafarfalla and her undying love for the redeemed!draco/harry plot. and that can still happen.

so maybe that's my answer. avoid all the inevitable remus/tonks stories by delving back into h/d and reading the same story over and over. hey man, whatever works.

now, your thoughts? please?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dorrie6.livejournal.com
I won't comment a lot, because my reaction to the book was *so* much different from yours, and I don't want to go there, but I *will* say that I do not for one minute believe that Snape is evil.

1. He made the Unbreakable Vow and had to go through with it.
2. I think that's what Dumbledore wanted him to do, and was begging him to do at the end.
3. As Harry was chasing him out of Hogwarts, he was still *instructing* him--trying to teach him what he'd need to not get killed.

I was actually surprised to come online and find out that there were people who thought Snape was actually evil, when all this stuff, plus the secret conversations with Dumbledore, etc., made it so clear to me that he was not.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:49 pm (UTC)
ext_14405: (Default)
From: [identity profile] phineasjones.livejournal.com
go there! i mean, please, go right ahead. i would love to be talked down from my negative reaction (which could have plenty to do with toe pain, family death and airplanes, i'm quite aware).

and i really, really want to share that belief about snape. i was trying desperately to get there after reading. but then i was upset by thinking about what will happen to him from here if it's true that he's still working for the good. everyone was so instantly ready to believe he was evil - everyone who had been defending him. and, ok, yeah, he killed dumbledore... but. god it's just so annoying to me that if, indeed, he was supposed to kill dumbledore, no one else knew about it. TELL SOMEONE SOMETHING FOR ONCE YOU BIG, BEARDED DUFUS! ok, yeah, i need to calm down.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 06:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wild-boys.livejournal.com
I completely agree. Snape not evil 100%. Although now he has killed Dumbledore so I rather suspect he will die and give his life for the cause, proving not-evil at the last - he Cannot Be Allowed To Survive. It's too easy and silly to make him evil now. If he stays evil, then I'll be floored by the crapness of it all, but I don't believe it for a second.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-08-01 04:18 pm (UTC)
ext_14405: (Default)
From: [identity profile] phineasjones.livejournal.com
yeah, you're right. not evil. but he will suffer. greatly. possibly at harry's hands before harry realizes the truth. which makes me pouty and sad. i really need to get over my love of happy endings.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dorrie6.livejournal.com
I will try to come back after work and "go there". Hee. But for now here is all the stuff I wrote about it (http://www.livejournal.com/users/dorrie6/tag/hbp). :)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hominidj.livejournal.com
dorrie, i haven't read your post on this yet, but so far you are fucking channelling me, man!

-snape may have been good at occlumency, but dumbledore was the fuckin' man! snape couldn't have fooled him.

-why would snape have said to harry as he beat his ass severely, "yo! harry YOU MUST WORK ON YOUR OCCLUMENCY! I'M NOT FUCKING AROUND HERE!" (paraphrased a bit)

-if snape were really evil, why would he not only have refrained from killing harry for all those years, but also gone out of his way to help him on a couple of occasion? and snape's answer to the question when what's her face asks him is totally unconvincing.

-why did dumbledore keep trewlaney around? precisely because she would occasionally, entirely despite herself, say something truly prophetic, like for example, "dumbledore, you're gonna die and it's gotta be snape that does the deed."

-of course, dumbledore wouldn't have told harry about the deal with snape killing him, because harry would have tried to stop him. and of course, snape wouldn't tell him after the fact, because he knows harry would never believe him.

-there's a scene in which snape and dumbledore argue angrily. the contents of the argument are never revealed, but here's my thoughts on how it went:
d: you gotta kill me, dude.
s: no fuckin' way. i won't do it, d-man.
d: this is the way it's gotta be. the vster has to trust you completely in order for you to be there when harry takes him on in the final confrontation.
s: but i love you! (i just threw that part in for the slashers)

-yes, snape agreed to the unbreakable oath thingy, but he never committed to a timeline and he and the d-man may have already figured that that was what had to happen.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-26 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dorrie6.livejournal.com
-there's a scene in which snape and dumbledore argue angrily. the contents of the argument are never revealed, but here's my thoughts on how it went:
d: you gotta kill me, dude.
s: no fuckin' way. i won't do it, d-man.
d: this is the way it's gotta be. the vster has to trust you completely in order for you to be there when harry takes him on in the final confrontation.
s: but i love you! (i just threw that part in for the slashers)


That's exactly how I see it having played out too! Well, except possibly that last bit. But we can dream. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-08-01 04:23 pm (UTC)
ext_14405: (Default)
From: [identity profile] phineasjones.livejournal.com
yeah, you're right. you're totally right. very well thought out, my friend. i have decided i need to read the whole last part of the book over again. i think i read it too quickly, and too tensely.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-26 01:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] camillafarfalla.livejournal.com
Read [livejournal.com profile] novembersnow's HPB post. I was really overwhelmed when I finished and decided she was a smart, safe person to start with and I'm glad I did. She says a lot of great things about Snape (along the lines of Dorrie's comment), among other stuff.

The thought brewing in my head - which is, admittedly, not a head that has ever been terribly fond of Snape and frankly I was feeling sort of vindicated bc I've never liked him... but now after reading people's theories I'm not sure anymore (again) and that does make him the most interesting character which makes me like him more (what?) - about Snape killing Dumbledore is not nec. that he was supposed to kill him, but that either Snape or Draco is somehow more important to Voldemort's defeat than Dumbledore is. AD knew that SS had made the Unbreakable Vow which meant - I assume, though it's never spelled out - that something terrible would happen to SS if he didn't do it, and AD didn't want that to happen. It's just a brewing thought, not real solidified yet, but maybe there's something there to work with... I'm certainly intrigued, anyway.

So with you on the Remus/Tonks. I felt like it (the way it was just thrown in there, anyway) cheapened both of their characters.

I'm sorry you didn't like it more overall though... :( Maybe I can talk up some of the good points with you.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-08-01 04:27 pm (UTC)
ext_14405: (Default)
From: [identity profile] phineasjones.livejournal.com
and that does make him the most interesting character

having long thought that, this is why i was so disturbed that he might actually just be evil. but i don't think he is anymore, which, yes, makes him even more interesting. poor guy, it would be tough to be that interesting.

also, i think there was an element of protecting draco that AD and SS may have agreed on. they wouldn't have wanted him to kill, but if he didn't do it, in front of all those other DEs, he would have been dead meat. so SS took the chance away from him. and that probably would have been what AD preferred.

i'm liking the book more and more, but have decided i must re-read the end. possibly skipping the r/t scene because that put me in a truly foul mood.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-26 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dorrie6.livejournal.com
I have ended up having a Very Bad Cold which came on suddenly today, so I'm not up to rambling here like I planned, but I will add one thing to what I said before:

I actually think it is genius, what JKR has done with Snape, even though I don't know how it will play out. But I think that deciding to trust Snape on his own will end up being crucial to Harry's success in the end. Of course nobody in the Order came forward to defend Snape after Dumbledore's death. Nobody liked him, and the only reason any of them trusted him in the first place was on Dumbledore's word, which has just died with him, as far as they're concerned. They are as quick to believe the worst of Snape as Harry is, now that Dumbledore is gone. I think it has to be Harry who figures this out. He is the only witness to the final moments between Dumbledore and Draco. He is the only witness on his side to the final moments with Snape. I think he has to figure it out, and I think it will be important.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-27 01:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madmadharri.livejournal.com
deciding to trust Snape on his own will end up being crucial to Harry's success in the end

i'm completely with dorrie on this one. i also had another question, which is why would dumbledore freeze harry if the only one coming up the stairs was draco? harry could have totally taken him on... swooped off with dumbledore on his broom, etc. before any badness needed to happen. but yeah, the couple of death eaters at the gate who wanted to kill harry? stopped by snape. who didn't suggest that they knock him out and bring him on over to the dark lord's house. he just told them to leave him be. not a very convincing bad guy there.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-28 04:57 pm (UTC)
ext_1310: (Default)
From: [identity profile] musesfool.livejournal.com
Well, I think Ddore also needed Harry to see that Draco could be turned away from the, er, dark side, that there was still the possibility that Draco isn't a killer, even if he is a racist bully.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hermionesviolin.livejournal.com
I was so not fan of the excessive amount of random pairings in this book.

I finished the book thinking, "Damn, she made Snape evil," but a large portion of fandom argues against that, and i've come to agree with them. Despite my general lack of interest in the book, i ended up talking about it rather a lot on LJ, but the Snape-centric entry is this one (http://www.livejournal.com/users/hermionesviolin/538520.html).

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coloredvision.livejournal.com
My thoughts (http://www.livejournal.com/users/coloredvision/tag/fannish:hbp), and others' (http://www.livejournal.com/users/femmequixotic/164329.html?#cutid1) thoughts (http://www.livejournal.com/users/fabularasa/27100.html) on Snape that I found to be good points.

Anyway. Totally with you on the Remus/Tonks, and there are a number of good posts I've seen about that as well, many centering around that for Tonks to pine and mope over Remus is kind of, well, stupid, and that was a completely inappropriate time for her to confront him (yet again, apparently).

I really liked this book, but a lot of that has to do with Harry's attitude not being all shouty, and how I rather liked the flashbacks and horcruxes.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:54 pm (UTC)
ext_1310: (Default)
From: [identity profile] musesfool.livejournal.com
I have over a hundred posts on hbp in my memories (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=musesfool&keyword=hbp&filter=all), and my various ramblings can be found here, including why I don't htink Snape is evil, how much I LOVED this book, EXCEPT for the goddamn Remus/Tonks nonsense, the themes of mothers and sons, the strengthening of the trio, Harry's badassery, Regulus Black's possible non-toolish-ness, and of course, the badness of Remus/Tonks and how it was done, but on the other hand, the fact that even Rowling admits there's no hint of it in OotP means that it doesn't preclude Remus/Sirius, even though Tonks's behavior feels like a fucking slap in the face to Sirius if it's all about her unrequited love for Remus instead of her mourning for her cousin. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/musesfool/tag/hbp) ()

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wild-boys.livejournal.com
Remus is beaten down enough by his inconsoleable grief that he will take what little comfort hand-holding with Tonks can bring. Also, Tonks is his cousin and can magically morph into him :P

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-28 04:59 pm (UTC)
ext_1310: (Default)
From: [identity profile] musesfool.livejournal.com
Bwah. Yes. Remus was also backed into a corner and probably felt it was best to capitulate with the OMG EVERYONE MUST PAIR OFF thing McG and the Weasleys were doing in that hospital scene.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 05:55 pm (UTC)
ext_1310: (Default)
From: [identity profile] musesfool.livejournal.com
er, that is, i loved all that stuff i named except the Remus/Tonks. I should have edited that better.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 06:03 pm (UTC)
ext_14294: A redhead an a couple of cats. (Default)
From: [identity profile] ashkitty.livejournal.com
I am much too lazy to write everything again, but I got most of my thoughts out here, with a few other teeny things here and one very last gleeful thing here. Spoilers in all, obviously.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-25 11:28 pm (UTC)
colorfulshadows: (Default)
From: [personal profile] colorfulshadows
I was completely of the mind that the R/T felt like a slap in the face too. That is, until I read the second part of the JKR interview on Muggle.net. She talked about how she'd been trolling through M.Net and came across some comment about how Tonks couldn't end up with so-n-so (she couldn't remember who) because she was going to end up with Lupin. JKR's response was either utter amusement or shock (she said she fell out of her chair), so she never saw them together to begin with. Then, in another part of the interview (first part, I think), she talks about using romance as a red herring in detective stories. She said she did that with Percy and Penelope in GoF and wanted to do it again, this time with Tonks. So picking Remus for Tonks' romantic interest was rather arbitrary and it comes across that way in the book because it's so pointless and a throw-away moment (nevermind rather bad timing on Tonks' part since, hello, Dumbledore just /died/). The thing with Percy and Penelope at least had a greater bearing on the story. Tonks and Remus was so utterly left-field. I think she only picked him because it amused her. Which, considering they're her books, she can do that, but I think she was the only one amused. =/

(no subject)

Date: 2005-07-27 01:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] madmadharri.livejournal.com
hmm.. random thoughts: i really lurve this commentary (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mistful/71794.html), which you've probably seen already. yes, the remus/tonks was ... i mean, i feel kind of horribly betrayed. but i'm working on just ignoring it and moving on, as there's nothing else we can do, i guess, except read little bunnies like this (http://www.livejournal.com/users/jjtaylor/144447.html#cutid1) to make myself feel better a teensy-weensy bit better.

how many times did harry, draco, and "obsessed with" appear in the same sentence? also, mmmm, trio. after which hermione & ginny ride off into the sunset, leaving harry, ron & draco to sort themselves out. while neville & blaise go make smoochies in the greenhouse. poor ron.

Profile

phineasjones: (Default)
phineasjones

July 2020

S M T W T F S
    1234
567891011
12131415161718
19202122232425
262728293031 

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags